I have subscribed. Good job I didn't or couldn't delete my account at identi.ca. Oh and one more thing is identi.ca not based on open source micro-blogging ????????
but if Jaiku is going open sourced, we don't have to code it for Laconica, we can just stay in Jaiku which already has threads that we all love and make it better :D
@myrtti: i never said it! i really dont get why ppl are saying that!
what i said was just that IN CASE GOOGLE REALLY closes the site (but i dont see @jyri doing it), we will need to move to a PAE! do u even know where to look for it? okay google search should help lol
@BUGabundo: I do wonder that. I haven't ever worked out the actual managed structure of an open source project. There's the possibility that there could be multiple branches?
@alexleonard: too much code and too much over head. plus multiple "jaiku like microblogs" will certainly move ppl appart! on the other hand Laconica installs and federations seems to be going strong
Like @overpills I need threads. I also see no reason to rush and leave Jaiku. Sure I'm disappointed but I will see what happens. Hey, I like you guys and don;t want to lose touch ...
but guys, they haven't done any real development on this since they bought it. I'm guessing that really the only change is that they will take Andy to do some other project. If it stays on maintenance will be done - of sort. and now every one who banged about the greatness of identi.ca being open source will be able to actually put their work where their mouth were in regards to coding :P
Jaiku has always been better because of the threads and also the site was designed with general UI in account. identi.ca is fine but you can tell it was built by geeks for geeks and general people can suck it if they don't it easy to use. Jaiku just has always attracted a well rounded bunch of people. Geeks and non geeks.
@overpills I'm hoping that a couple of things will happen once the AppEngine version is launched.
The AppEngine team will be responsible for the underlying infrastructure and they'll be the guys looking after that on a 24/7/365 basis. That should make a big difference.
@jyri gets permission to release some of the mock-ups showing the original (and very cool) plans for Jaiku 2.0. Then the open source Python community can evolve JaikuEngine (the open source code base) in interesting new directions.
Finally I hope this means people finally begin to understand that the point has never been to compete with Twitter but to do something different-- something that lets you communicate with your friends on every microblogging site rather than trying to get the whole world to use just one site.
I always had 2 problems with Laconica/Identica. One was that I'm not a fan of PHP. The other was that I have no inclination to look after my own servers on a 24/7/365 basis. JaikuEngine rather neatly solves both problems by using Python and using AppEngine.
@adewale, we here have our issues with google in terms of 'hoping what will happen'. as far as we've seen so far was google buy the service, drained the talent out of it and proceeded to do nothing except increase the down time. so we're reasonably suspicious.
@overpills I don't think senior management ever really grokked Jaiku as well as mere peons like myself.
One of the positive aspects of being open sourced is that Jaiku will be a little less dependent on finding a place in someone's strategy. There's a story Clay Shirky tells in his book about the Bronze Beta forum. After the official forum shut down they paid some programmers to build them an exact clone (complete with bugs) and the community migrated to that.
I think that if we can keep Google management happy with people maintaining the site in their 20% time (even as the global economy craters) then the community can continue just fine without (much) corporate involvement.
If @jyri keeps Jaiku as a 20% project, this little ecosystem will tick over just as politiely as it always has. But I don't know if he has the latitude to call Jaiku a one-day paid project.
@runningwithbulls: apart from me not exploding at people who are entitled to their opinion? probably nothing. I'll also probably resubscribe at some point, but right now I'm just too frustrated and angry with all this shit about "Jaiku dying" which it's not going to do.
@BUGabundo, If you're looking for threaded micro-blogging with a clean interface, I have been quietly slaving away on http://SoIndustry.com on my own for yonks. It's more like Jaiku meets LinkedIn, but if you're looking for threaded microblogging and Plurk is a bit too crazy, perhaps SoI is worth a look. It's private beta but I'm activating people pretty quickly.
Either way, I'm looking forward to checking out the Jaiku codebase, presuming it makes in on to GitHub, glorious GitHub. We'll be able to fix the feed addition features on our own! Awesome. My Jaiku timeline is going to look very different without 'FEEDS ARE BROKEN' on every single page view...
@alexleonard I've been applying the opposite strategy. When someone says they're going to be staying with Jaiku till the end or they're planning to help out with the open source project then I add them as a contact.
In the best case scenario I get to 'meet' the people who are going to be contributing to JaikuEngine. In the worst case scenario I've added the hard core of Jaikurati who will be all that's left after Twitter forms a World Government.
@adewale: Well I'd love to say I'd help with the open source project, although I'm not too sure what good I'd be. I guess I'd be able to help out on the front end site end of things, or themeing/templating. But I'm definitely here til the end anyway. Nothing else has grabbed me the way Jaiku has, and I've never even bothered joining twitter.
This news has just made it clear to me that its time to think differently about these social networks. Sure, there's community, notifications, and such, but there are better ways to manage this information than what has been given here.
I'm sticking around, but also going to learn from this how I could develop something from this, if not to share with others, to share as a social object into others.
That's just it @overpills; there's nothing that I have seen (direcly) that does manage this information better.
Managing information (contacts, feeds, etc.) is nearly as personal as the neural impulses that create our brains. We all do this differently. There are patterns though, and I don't think that any social network that relies on broadcast and catch really takes advantage of that. Jaiku comes close though, and so does the Palm Pre's Calendar and Contacts interfaces.
But that's just it; its not a simple (a) see contact (b) connect to contact (c) service doesn't matter approach. There are still these silos of service this and service that. And this creates these moments of oh my, this is dying more often than it should.
I think something can be created. I know this is being worked on.
@arjw interesting. always interested in your opinion any way.
The problem I have is waiting for that 'killer app', that dvorak has been anticipating for last good knows how many years. There will be no killer app. Frankly, I don't even want one - I don't want every one handling all my stuff. I might like an IU that integrates all the services I am using neatly, but I don't want one app/service to 'own' me.
At @overpills, that's just it; one app or service shouldn't own us at all, they should all just facilitate the connections. I think that's what Google on the AppEngine will do; I know that the iteration of Jaiku that we are on was a building block to it.
I am with @overpills. I have always thought the Jaiku model would make an amazing internal tool for the right types of industry. Jaiku Enterprise Edition, if you will. One instance that comes to mind is IT groups for when something goes wrong, someone can post a "the core router in building 2 just caught fire" message, which will let everyone (except the poor slobs in bldg 2) know that there is a problem. Updates and suggestions (there's a spare in bldg 3!) could easily follow without flooding inboxes but missing people with key info.
Research and story-writing is another area that comes to mind quickly. People know a lot of random trivia, and while the Times would not want people to know what they are working on, an internal version where the data can be controlled could be very useful.
55 comments so far
just remember that #identica and many others micro-blogs dont do threads!
AFAIK only #jaiku and #plurk do them, and its the best way to create a community and allow anyone be part of the conversation
10 months, 1 week ago by BUGabundo
I have subscribed. Good job I didn't or couldn't delete my account at identi.ca. Oh and one more thing is identi.ca not based on open source micro-blogging ????????
10 months, 1 week ago by gerrymoth
@gerrymoth: identi.ca is based on laconica which is FULL FOSS
10 months, 1 week ago by BUGabundo
I can't imagine using something that doesn't have threads. Surely that's incredibly confusing
10 months, 1 week ago by alexleonard
@alexleonard: it is! i dont like it! but its what we have available! feel free to code it for Laconica
10 months, 1 week ago by BUGabundo
Now that would be remarkable, but I fear that my coding abilities don't stretch that far ;)
10 months, 1 week ago by alexleonard
but if Jaiku is going open sourced, we don't have to code it for Laconica, we can just stay in Jaiku which already has threads that we all love and make it better :D
10 months, 1 week ago by cybette
And who said this is going to die and we're going to leave?
10 months, 1 week ago by myrtti
I'm not going anywhere unless it gets taken away from me
10 months, 1 week ago by alexleonard
I'm unsubscribing every single person in Jaiku that I've had that I catch saying that Jaiku is going to die. So far three people have been dropped.
10 months, 1 week ago by myrtti
yes @cybette, i agree! but someone or somegroup will need to mantain it
10 months, 1 week ago by BUGabundo
@myrtti: i never said it! i really dont get why ppl are saying that!
what i said was just that IN CASE GOOGLE REALLY closes the site (but i dont see @jyri doing it), we will need to move to a PAE! do u even know where to look for it? okay google search should help lol
10 months, 1 week ago by BUGabundo
@myrtti: Heh.
@BUGabundo: I do wonder that. I haven't ever worked out the actual managed structure of an open source project. There's the possibility that there could be multiple branches?
10 months, 1 week ago by alexleonard
@alexleonard: too much code and too much over head. plus multiple "jaiku like microblogs" will certainly move ppl appart! on the other hand Laconica installs and federations seems to be going strong
10 months, 1 week ago by BUGabundo
@myrtti I take it I'm one of them :D 'Long live Jaiku'
10 months, 1 week ago by gerrymoth
@myrtti You have removed me? I may delete my account all together if people are like this!
10 months, 1 week ago by gerrymoth
jesus why is everybody so panicky? this will continue to be on as normal
10 months, 1 week ago by overpills
Like @overpills I need threads. I also see no reason to rush and leave Jaiku. Sure I'm disappointed but I will see what happens. Hey, I like you guys and don;t want to lose touch ...
10 months, 1 week ago by jpblogger
@overpills: we are not panicing! we are just venting and thinking on what may happen in the near future
10 months, 1 week ago by BUGabundo
but guys, they haven't done any real development on this since they bought it. I'm guessing that really the only change is that they will take Andy to do some other project. If it stays on maintenance will be done - of sort. and now every one who banged about the greatness of identi.ca being open source will be able to actually put their work where their mouth were in regards to coding :P
10 months, 1 week ago by overpills
Jaiku has always been better because of the threads and also the site was designed with general UI in account. identi.ca is fine but you can tell it was built by geeks for geeks and general people can suck it if they don't it easy to use. Jaiku just has always attracted a well rounded bunch of people. Geeks and non geeks.
10 months, 1 week ago by CaffeineJunky
@BUGabundo well I don't know all this 'i'm leaving! let's all go to identi.ca! this is closign down!' - sounds slightly panicky to me...
10 months, 1 week ago by overpills
I'm not leaving. I'll drink the Jaiku-juice until closing time!
I'm on Twitter and Identi.ca anyway. Maybe a group of coders will latch onto Jaiku once it's open source and it will live on.
10 months, 1 week ago by mjohnson
i think it will make a brilliant internal communication too. i'm getting my work to install it first thing when it comes out
10 months, 1 week ago by overpills
@overpills I'm hoping that a couple of things will happen once the AppEngine version is launched.
The AppEngine team will be responsible for the underlying infrastructure and they'll be the guys looking after that on a 24/7/365 basis. That should make a big difference.
@jyri gets permission to release some of the mock-ups showing the original (and very cool) plans for Jaiku 2.0. Then the open source Python community can evolve JaikuEngine (the open source code base) in interesting new directions.
Finally I hope this means people finally begin to understand that the point has never been to compete with Twitter but to do something different-- something that lets you communicate with your friends on every microblogging site rather than trying to get the whole world to use just one site.
I always had 2 problems with Laconica/Identica. One was that I'm not a fan of PHP. The other was that I have no inclination to look after my own servers on a 24/7/365 basis. JaikuEngine rather neatly solves both problems by using Python and using AppEngine.
10 months, 1 week ago by adewale
@adewale, we here have our issues with google in terms of 'hoping what will happen'. as far as we've seen so far was google buy the service, drained the talent out of it and proceeded to do nothing except increase the down time. so we're reasonably suspicious.
10 months, 1 week ago by overpills
Drama!!!111!!!omgwtfbbq!!!1111!!!
10 months, 1 week ago by Texrat
@overpills I don't think senior management ever really grokked Jaiku as well as mere peons like myself.
One of the positive aspects of being open sourced is that Jaiku will be a little less dependent on finding a place in someone's strategy. There's a story Clay Shirky tells in his book about the Bronze Beta forum. After the official forum shut down they paid some programmers to build them an exact clone (complete with bugs) and the community migrated to that.
I think that if we can keep Google management happy with people maintaining the site in their 20% time (even as the global economy craters) then the community can continue just fine without (much) corporate involvement.
10 months, 1 week ago by adewale
If @jyri keeps Jaiku as a 20% project, this little ecosystem will tick over just as politiely as it always has. But I don't know if he has the latitude to call Jaiku a one-day paid project.
10 months, 1 week ago by topgold
@myrtti i dont see what unfollowing people will do.
10 months, 1 week ago by runningwithbulls
It'll learn em ;)
10 months, 1 week ago by alexleonard
@runningwithbulls: apart from me not exploding at people who are entitled to their opinion? probably nothing. I'll also probably resubscribe at some point, but right now I'm just too frustrated and angry with all this shit about "Jaiku dying" which it's not going to do.
10 months, 1 week ago by myrtti
@alexleonard Oi! I tought I told you already! :) Leave it ouat! :P
@myrtti Ok, if that helps then I guess thats what you have to do.
10 months, 1 week ago by runningwithbulls
@BUGabundo, If you're looking for threaded micro-blogging with a clean interface, I have been quietly slaving away on http://SoIndustry.com on my own for yonks. It's more like Jaiku meets LinkedIn, but if you're looking for threaded microblogging and Plurk is a bit too crazy, perhaps SoI is worth a look. It's private beta but I'm activating people pretty quickly.
Either way, I'm looking forward to checking out the Jaiku codebase, presuming it makes in on to GitHub, glorious GitHub. We'll be able to fix the feed addition features on our own! Awesome. My Jaiku timeline is going to look very different without 'FEEDS ARE BROKEN' on every single page view...
10 months, 1 week ago by Neil
@alexleonard I've been applying the opposite strategy. When someone says they're going to be staying with Jaiku till the end or they're planning to help out with the open source project then I add them as a contact.
In the best case scenario I get to 'meet' the people who are going to be contributing to JaikuEngine. In the worst case scenario I've added the hard core of Jaikurati who will be all that's left after Twitter forms a World Government.
10 months, 1 week ago by adewale
@adewale: Well I'd love to say I'd help with the open source project, although I'm not too sure what good I'd be. I guess I'd be able to help out on the front end site end of things, or themeing/templating. But I'm definitely here til the end anyway. Nothing else has grabbed me the way Jaiku has, and I've never even bothered joining twitter.
10 months, 1 week ago by alexleonard
@adewale: that's an interesting strategy there.
This news has just made it clear to me that its time to think differently about these social networks. Sure, there's community, notifications, and such, but there are better ways to manage this information than what has been given here.
I'm sticking around, but also going to learn from this how I could develop something from this, if not to share with others, to share as a social object into others.
10 months, 1 week ago by arjw
@arjw show me the "better ways to manage this information" i have been looking for them for a while
10 months, 1 week ago by overpills
That's just it @overpills; there's nothing that I have seen (direcly) that does manage this information better.
Managing information (contacts, feeds, etc.) is nearly as personal as the neural impulses that create our brains. We all do this differently. There are patterns though, and I don't think that any social network that relies on broadcast and catch really takes advantage of that. Jaiku comes close though, and so does the Palm Pre's Calendar and Contacts interfaces.
But that's just it; its not a simple (a) see contact (b) connect to contact (c) service doesn't matter approach. There are still these silos of service this and service that. And this creates these moments of oh my, this is dying more often than it should.
I think something can be created. I know this is being worked on.
10 months, 1 week ago by arjw
okay we need a channel about jaiku FOSS, so anyone interested can discuss there
10 months, 1 week ago by BUGabundo
@BUGabundo: why? we have #jaiku, #devku and #wishku...
10 months, 1 week ago by myrtti
@myrtti different subject. but i guess #devku is the best option
10 months, 1 week ago by BUGabundo
@arjw interesting. always interested in your opinion any way. The problem I have is waiting for that 'killer app', that dvorak has been anticipating for last good knows how many years. There will be no killer app. Frankly, I don't even want one - I don't want every one handling all my stuff. I might like an IU that integrates all the services I am using neatly, but I don't want one app/service to 'own' me.
10 months, 1 week ago by overpills
At @overpills, that's just it; one app or service shouldn't own us at all, they should all just facilitate the connections. I think that's what Google on the AppEngine will do; I know that the iteration of Jaiku that we are on was a building block to it.
10 months, 1 week ago by arjw
then we will all end up being owned by google ;)
10 months, 1 week ago by overpills
Aren't we already?
10 months, 1 week ago by edythemighty
@edy not quite yet. there's 20% in all of us owned by facebook
10 months, 1 week ago by overpills
I know a few people who don't have FB profiles. What does that mean for them?
10 months, 1 week ago by edythemighty
20% of them doesn't exist?
10 months, 1 week ago by overpills
That's an existentialist crisis if ever there was one!
10 months, 1 week ago by edythemighty
Interesting conversation, but I think I have better things to do.
@edythemighty there are some of us who don't want to be owned by google. or anyone conpany in particular. I'm with @overpills on this one.
10 months, 1 week ago by runningwithbulls
I will stay to the bitter end in Jaiku even if I'm also doing more Twittering nowadays but thats only because it gets so easy while using Flock.
10 months, 1 week ago by Cityrat59
@edy ;)
10 months, 1 week ago by overpills
Applying @adewale's strategy.
I am with @overpills. I have always thought the Jaiku model would make an amazing internal tool for the right types of industry. Jaiku Enterprise Edition, if you will. One instance that comes to mind is IT groups for when something goes wrong, someone can post a "the core router in building 2 just caught fire" message, which will let everyone (except the poor slobs in bldg 2) know that there is a problem. Updates and suggestions (there's a spare in bldg 3!) could easily follow without flooding inboxes but missing people with key info.
Research and story-writing is another area that comes to mind quickly. People know a lot of random trivia, and while the Times would not want people to know what they are working on, an internal version where the data can be controlled could be very useful.
10 months, 1 week ago by bogart
@bogart: so then what's a wiki that does the same thing?
10 months, 1 week ago by arjw